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BTVS Episode Poll: 6.18 Entropy

And now, it's time for everything to fall apart -- and Spike and Anya to get it on -- in Entropy!




Poll #1967666 BTVS Episode Poll: 6.18 Entropy

1. Spike's new obsession with Buffy telling her friends about their relationship -- what do you think?

Totally arbitrary and ridiculous
0(0.0%)
Speaks importantly to his state of mind
9(56.2%)
He's right, she should tell them -- deception is bad for the soul
0(0.0%)
He's completely off base here. Part of being an adult means NOT necessarily sharing all the details of your sex life with everyone you know
3(18.8%)
Eh, whatever
2(12.5%)
Other
2(12.5%)

2. Xander and Anya have their first post-not-wedding conversation, which escalates until Anya tries to curse him. Who is being the unreasonable one here?

Anya
2(12.5%)
Xander
6(37.5%)
Both
4(25.0%)
Neither
0(0.0%)
It's complicated
4(25.0%)
Other
0(0.0%)

3. Anya's curse is to wish Xander was never born. Imagine a BTVS world without Xander.

Shhh.... I'm having a beautiful moment here.
5(31.2%)
Buffy would have died at the end of Season 1, so, no.
3(18.8%)
Eh, he can be a jerk, but I still like him as a character.
3(18.8%)
He's an important part of the chemistry that makes the show work.
4(25.0%)
Xander is my favorite. No way.
0(0.0%)
Other
1(6.2%)

4. Anya's quest to get one of Xander's friends to curse him. What do you think?

Hee hee hee.
3(20.0%)
Understandable, but she should know it won't pay off.
2(13.3%)
Proof that her heart isn't really in it.
3(20.0%)
Pretty thoughtless toward them, actually.
3(20.0%)
Other
4(26.7%)

5. Xander's first thought is that the camera in the yard is Spike's doing, in spite of the nerd trio being a much more obvious pick for a thing like that. Why?

Plot expedient, nothing more.
0(0.0%)
Xander is obsessed with Spike. Obviously!
5(31.2%)
Everybody keeps forgetting about The Trio as a threat, even the other characters.
11(68.8%)
Other
0(0.0%)

6. Spike says, "The way I feel about you -- it's different. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself it isn't. It's real." Buffy says, "I think it is -- for you." What do you think?

Buffy is absolutely right here. Spike's feelings obligate Buffy to NOTHING and he needs to realize that.
5(31.2%)
She's right, if not entirely honest.
7(43.8%)
It's her call, of course, but I still think she's trying to hurt Spike a little.
1(6.2%)
Ouch. Buffy, that's cold.
3(18.8%)
Other
0(0.0%)

7. Spike and Anya getting drunk together and complaining about the other Scoobies -- I love the scene, of course, because how could you not? But their complaints -- are they justified?

Yes, absolutely. Xander and Buffy in particular are both way too uptight and judgmental for their own good.
2(14.3%)
Kind of. But they're the same complaints you might have about any tightly knit social group.
10(71.4%)
No, of course not. They're just upset and lashing out.
0(0.0%)
Not being entirely honest, are they? Nobody made them join the gang. If they hate the Scoobies, what they really hate is themselves.
2(14.3%)
Other
0(0.0%)

8. Spike and Anya having sex after getting drunk together. What do you think?

YES!!!! IT'S SHIPPER TIME!!!!!
3(18.8%)
It makes sense for the characters at this point, but I don't really ship them otherwise.
10(62.5%)
Fine.
2(12.5%)
I don't buy it for the characters at all.
1(6.2%)
Other
0(0.0%)

9. Xander's axe-happiness followed by his "you let that thing touch you" speech. What do you think?

Jeez, what an asshole.
5(31.2%)
An asshole move, but at least the script seems to recognize that it is an asshole move.
3(18.8%)
Terrible behavior, but understandable -- he's reacting irrationally from pure emotional pain.
1(6.2%)
Not good, but not any worse than what Anya was trying to do to him, with the cursing and all.
0(0.0%)
It's amazing how far he will go to avoid accepting responsibility for his own screw ups.
3(18.8%)
The lad protests too much. YOU CANNOT HIDE YOUR SEXUAL ATTRACTION TO SPIKE, XANDER.
0(0.0%)
The jerky words toward Anya are bad enough, but then he also tries to cut off Spike's head with an ax. That's kinda beyond the pale, don't you think?
2(12.5%)
Other
2(12.5%)

10. Quotes!

BUFFY I tried to kill my friends, my sister, last week and guess how much they hate me now? Zero. Zero much.
1(6.7%)
TARA And Buffy's okay too? Enjoying the refreshing sanity and so forth?
0(0.0%)
ANDREW He's got that same look on his face, the one he had that time I highlighted in his Babylon 5 novels -- right before he told his mother on me!
0(0.0%)
ANY I wish you felt the pain of a thousand searing pokers boiling your heart in its own juices! I wish you had tentacles where your beady eyes should be!
0(0.0%)
ANYA I wish your intestines were twisted into knots and ripped apart inside your lousy gut! XANDER They are. ANYA Really? Right now? Does it hurt? XANDER God, yes. ANYA Those are metaphor intestines! You're not in any real pain!
3(20.0%)
BUFFY I am. I'm the embarrassing mom who tries too hard. When did this happen?
0(0.0%)
BUFFY I don't think he could feel any worse. ANYA Let's test that theory.
0(0.0%)
DAWN I never use that word anymore. ANYA Coagulate? DAWN W-i-s-h.
1(6.7%)
ANYA God! What kind of lesbians are you?! If you love men so much, go love men!
1(6.7%)
BUFFY What the hell is that creepy little thing doing in my yard? Did Willow put that there when I was dead? 'Cause if I had known, I would have crawled out of the grave sooner.
1(6.7%)
ANYA I think I know just the thing to help. Eases the hurt, Makes the sun shine a little brighter, even makes boring people seem more interesting. Ah. here. (Slams a bottle of Jack Daniels on the counter.)
2(13.3%)
ANYA I'm off my guard. Happy. I'm singing in the shower and doing my sexy dance SPIKE Exact -- I have no dance.
1(6.7%)
SPIKE I saved the Scoobies how many times? And I can't stand the lot of you. ANYA Me either! I hate us!
4(26.7%)
SPIKE Drusilla was always straightforward. Didn't have a single buggering clue about what was going on right in front of her, but she was straight about it.
0(0.0%)
SPIKE Please. It's no wonder they couldn't deal with the likes of you and me, Luv. We both should've been dead hundreds of years ago -- and we're the only ones that are really alive.
0(0.0%)
SPIKE He'd have to be more than just the git he is, Anya. He'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to want a woman like you.
0(0.0%)
Other
1(6.7%)

11. Rate this episode

Mean: 7.20 Median: 7 Std. Dev 1.05
0
0(0.0%)
1
0(0.0%)
2
0(0.0%)
3
0(0.0%)
4
0(0.0%)
5
1(6.7%)
6
3(20.0%)
7
4(26.7%)
8
6(40.0%)
9
1(6.7%)
10
0(0.0%)

Comments

( 49 comments — Leave a comment )
mcjulie
May. 10th, 2014 09:55 pm (UTC)
1. Completely off base, although the first time through it seemed more arbitrary than it does now -- he is turning into a creepy stalker ex boyfriend, which might be sort of expected for vampires, but it's a bit unsettling for one who has been playing the hero so long.

2. Both. I think there's a tiny sliver of a chance that they could have patched things up here, but Anya is too angry and Xander is too defensive.

3. He's an important part of the chemistry that makes the show work. Yeah, he can be kind of a self-involved jerk. So can my real-life friends.

4. Proof that her heart isn't really in it. I think on some level she knows she won't be able to get Xander's very best and closest friends to really curse him. She wants to hurt him, yes -- but not really in the permanent, totally out-of-scale way of vengeance demon curses. I think if her original curse had worked, she would have instantly regretted it.

5. Everybody keeps forgetting about The Trio as a threat. Because, seriously.

6. She's right, if not entirely honest. I feel like her response to Spike is just a little too… I don't know… pithy, maybe? She doesn't love him -- she's telling the truth about that -- but I don't think she's acknowledging the true depth and complexity of her feelings for him. This is more like the Buffy of "The Crush."

7. What they really hate is themselves. I like how this scene makes the parallels between Spike's story and Anya's story really obvious. Spike and Anya were villains who had their power to do evil taken away by outside forces, and in that power vacuum, they fell in love with the the good guys, a part of themselves hating themselves for it. But the lack of consent at the start of the journey continues to hang unresolved over their heads. Are they truly good, truly evil, or do they just go whichever way the wind is blowing?

8. YES!!!! IT'S SHIPPER TIME!!!!!

9. An asshole move, but at least the script seems to recognize that it is an asshole move. Everything that Anya says to call him out on it, for example, is dead on. He doesn't have the right to judge -- anyone, ever, pretty much. But he's hurt and lashing out.

Incidentally, I think that Buffy and Xander are both reacting at least in part to how they found out about Anya and Spike -- they're responding as if the video show was something Anya and Spike (Spanya? Anyike?) did on purpose to rub their faces in it, not something where they feel just as betrayed as everyone else.

10. SPIKE I saved the Scoobies how many times? And I can't stand the lot of you. ANYA Me either! I hate us!

11. I give it an 8. Spanya forever!






trepkos
May. 10th, 2014 11:22 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure what Spike thinks will change if Buffy tells the others about their relationship, but I feel it's wrong of her to pretend nothing's happening. Presumably it's because he's a vampire; if she didn't want her friends to know for any other reason that he couldn't do anything about, it would be wrong, so it's wrong here too.
mcjulie
May. 10th, 2014 11:27 pm (UTC)
Yeah, in real life, it's nearly always a jerk move to be publicly ashamed of the person you're sleeping with.
itsnotmymind
May. 10th, 2014 11:39 pm (UTC)
2. I thought they were both unreasonable, but I give the unreasonable award to Anya because she, you know, tried to curse him. Kind of drowns everything else out.

6. I think in a perfect world she could have phrased it better, but since she was, y'know, trying to keep Spike from STALKING her, I give her a pass.

8. I totally stopped shipping Buffy/Spike temporarily.
mcjulie
May. 11th, 2014 02:01 am (UTC)
"8. I totally stopped shipping Buffy/Spike temporarily."

Yes! I have been waiting for this moment since season 4, when Anya and Spike have a lovely moment in what is otherwise my least favorite episode ever.
kikimay
May. 11th, 2014 12:29 am (UTC)
1. It speaks about Spike's state of mind. He wants some kind of recognition.

2. I went for it's complicated because they are both unreasonable, but how you can be reasonable after being left at the altar?

3. I went for "other", because they first one made me laugh and titlilled that part of me that doesn't like Xander, but to be fair he has his moments. I just can imagine him being replaced.

4. Understandable but it wouldn't pay off.

5. Xander is obsessed with Spike! Dude, stop thinking about that!

6. She's right, but not completely honest. Of course Spike can't hear her words but I guess that nobody just been dumped could hear a similar speech. It takes time to accept something like that and he's hurting.

7. It feels like normal complaining about people.

8. Fine. I love Spike and I love Anya. the black bra is really sexy and they are both lovely. It's kinda eeeww because the trio and the others are watching though. Just stop with the filmed/made public sex BtVS!

9. It's amazing how he can be so fucking judgemental after what he did. This is one of Xander's lowest points ever to me.

10. I like Tara's joke about Buffy but ultimately I went for Anya and Xander's dialogue because it so iconic for the episode. It doesn't have memorable lines though.

11. 7
mcjulie
May. 11th, 2014 02:03 am (UTC)
"This is one of Xander's lowest points ever to me."

I think so too. I think one of the Season 6 themes is that all three of the core characters -- Buffy/Willow/Xander -- basically hit bottom at some point during the season, sometimes more than once.
rebcake
May. 11th, 2014 02:45 am (UTC)
1. I think that Spike believes if she tells her friends, it will make it somehow more real to Buffy. She's been drifting, which isn't good for her. She needs to face reality, and part of that is being honest about what you want. Of course, he'd also like to get with her again, and if her friends do reject her, it might help effect that. I doubt he thinks they would reject her, though, so I'm not sure how much that plays into it.

3. For me Xander is an important avatar in the series for the guys we love (brothers, uncles, cousins, etc.) who disappoint us over and over again with their biases and lack of insight. We can't just blow them off, but they make it hard sometimes, you know? I think the show is more believable with him in it, even when I'd like to strangle him.

9. Words hurt plenty, but being decapitated hurts far worse. And is out of proportion with the "crime" of sleeping with someone you yourself rejected. Asshole. Worst moment for Xander, ever.
mcjulie
May. 11th, 2014 04:59 pm (UTC)
"I think the show is more believable with him in it, even when I'd like to strangle him."

Yes. One of my favorite BTVS things is the way it shows people with really tight bonds who also disagree and act like jerks to each other and get on each other's nerves a lot.
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red_satin_doll
May. 11th, 2014 12:52 pm (UTC)
Quote: All of Tara's dialogue in the last scene. I bawl like a baby.
mcjulie
May. 11th, 2014 05:00 pm (UTC)
Me too!
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frelling_tralk
May. 11th, 2014 01:20 pm (UTC)
1. Honestly I think that Spike was being a bit disingenuous in making out that Buffy telling her friends would be all for her own good, I think it was a lot more about Spike being sick of feeling like the dirty little secret and thinking that if they could force their relationship into the open then maybe it would have a better shot. But he must have known that Xander and Willow would freak out on Buffy and it would just make everything worse for her

2. For me it's typical Xander to just assume that they can go back to dating with no commitment right after he broke up their engagement and left Anya at the altar, even his friends in the previous episode thought that he was being very naïve about that

4. Pretty messed-up really, it's interesting that the show wasn't just playing Anya's past for comic relief, but also her returning to being a demon and actively trying to torture and kill in the present. I think it says a lot that the writers never took her seriously as a threat before season 7 and acted like it as just bitter woman hijinks, while at the same time spending so much time on redemption arcs for Angel and Spike and treating it seriously over whether they could ever be good without a soul, ever be redeemed for the past etc. Yet Anya was treated as a complete joke mostly whenever she did horrible things

9. He's an asshole, especially when he was trying to act like this was some big manly dual and he wanted to goad the defenceless vampire into fighting him back urgh. Not to mention telling Anya that she made him feel sick, what a charmer

Edited at 2014-05-11 01:28 pm (UTC)
mcjulie
May. 11th, 2014 05:11 pm (UTC)
"I think it says a lot that the writers never took her seriously as a threat before season 7"

True. I think it's partly because Anya without her powers is simply a human, while Spike is still a vampire. And partly because Spike and Angel both have a direct relationship to Buffy, while Anya is only related to her through Xander. But you could also argue that it's some of what Foz Meadows talks about here, http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/post/85170060941/gender-orphan-black-the-meta-of-meta, where female villains and antiheroes often don't get the same treatment as male villains and antiheroes.

Although to be fair to the BTVS writers, I do think Faith has been getting the full-on moral complexity antihero treatment, so it's not like they simply had a blind spot when it comes to female characters. But they were missing it for Anya, and I appreciate that they finally started dealing seriously with the moral implications of her vengeance demon past.
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pocochina
May. 11th, 2014 07:51 pm (UTC)
1/4: I kind of think Anya and Spike are both playing "if I can't have you no one will" games on some level? Partly they're impulsive creatures who are lashing out emotionally, but there's also social power plays going on. Anya trying to implicate the Scoobies in her vengeance quest is, I think, more about a very demon-y attempt to feel like she has allies than it is about the outcome. And Spike knows that socially, he wins either way if Buffy tells her friends: either they accept him and he feels far more secure in his place in her life, or they reject the relationship and it drives a wedge between her and her friends, and she is back where she was mid-season, isolated except for him.

9: An asshole move, but I do have a lot of sympathy for him. He's spent the last few years swallowing Spike's attempted murder of him because of Spike's loss of his power, and now Anya's regained superpowers and spent the last few days trying to use them against him. Xander's jealousy is so nasty and realistic that it's hard to defend, but at the same time, it tends to gets that nasty in response to very real threats to his safety, against which he has no means of protecting himself (see also Angel). So....I don't know. It's complicated.
mcjulie
May. 12th, 2014 02:58 pm (UTC)
"It's complicated."

Indeed! Actually it seems that Xander has spent the last couple of episodes really desperate for a way to direct his anger outward, instead of inward where he knows it belongs. It turns him into a deeply unpleasant person.
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red_satin_doll
May. 12th, 2014 04:27 pm (UTC)
What, no bonus essay questions?

1) Privacy, it's a thing - unless you're the "one slayer with friends and family", in which case the trade-off is their possessiveness of one another; kwritten and infinitewhale express it better than I can.

Basically it's her right to tell or not tell anyone she wishes. If he wants to tell her friends, then that's his right. But she doesn't "owe" him anything at that point. OTOH I almost answered arbitrary and ridiculous - maybe because I didn't ship them - I cheered when she broke it off because I loved the friendship aspect. I loved their interaction in Hell's Bells so I didn't want to go back to the fucked-up-ness. So I wasn't certain why the shift back - or rather, I get why, it's just that it's never communicated well, just shifts back and forth as the wind changes.

2) I chickened out and put "it's complicated" - but if I were more honest, I'd say it's Xander bugs the hell out of me here. He left her at the altar, which immediately cut her off from friends (his'), forced her to move out of what had been her home, etc. It's actually a very good example of what can happen when someone makes their spouse/partner the center of their world. But somehow, I don't see why we're supposed to have sympathy for Riley in S5 and excuse his activities but none for Anya - except that she lacks A Penis.

"that excuse gets old fast" - given that it happened mere weeks or months ago, that's bullshit IMO; he doesn't get to decide when her anger should "go away" - ie, when he wants it to., (Also given that he's now speaking to a vengeance demon with a thousand plus years of history, so I'm pretty sure that she has a different concept of "time" than he does.)

And granted that nothing Xander says is out of character for him; it's no different to him deflecting the revelation of The Lie in Selfless by slut-shaming Buffy. Or blaming her for Angel going bad; or his treatment of Cordy. Xander is someone who is not very good with self-reflection, and often doesn't take responsibility when he fucks up in big ways. That's part of his character right alongside the caring friend so it makes him interesting and real. But I wouldn't want a Xander in my life.

3) Since Angel had no "breath" with which to revive Buffy in PG and she's my favorite character, he gets a pass on that alone. But in reality? The 1st, 2nd, and 4th options are all equally true. (And btw - that moment WAS beautiful.)

4) Tie for options 3 7 4 - although thoughtfulness and empathy were never defining characteristics anyway, and it's totally understandable. What she is really looking for is sympathy, for an ally - but again it's the problem of what happens when you make someone else's world your own with nothing outside of them. And I tie option 3 with the events of Selfless - how she's trying to commit "suicide by slayer" because she knows damn well what Buffy will have to do.

5) Option #3 - that's a theme that gets hammered home all season "What are you trying to do, annoy me to death?" (Buffy, Gone) Maybe a little too much so - when Willow and Tara are putting off researching the Trio in favor of make-up sex, then it makes Tara's death look subsequently a bit (unintentionally) creepier on the part of the writers.

red_satin_doll
May. 12th, 2014 04:27 pm (UTC)
6) My friend just started watching btvs S1, and one of the reasons she dislikes Xander is that she's been on the receiving end of too many guys who think she should like/love them just because they want her to. I'd say the same of Spike here, and this is where he and Xander are somewhat similar but again, it's a running theme throughout the show even when the writers aren't clear what they're saying. is it complicated?
Oh yeah. I don't think she fully knows what she feels or how she 'should' feel, but she's not deceived him on that account either. She never made any claims that she loved him, he knew that.

Hoping that she'll eventually change her mind and return the favor is madness (and people do it all the time). I've seen that in friends, in my mom: "if I love him then eventually he'll..." No. that's not how it works.

7) They hate themselves. The SG didn't open the door wide and say "Come on in!" Spike and Anya chose to return to Sunnydale, they both pursued Buffy and Xander, persistently and aggressively at that.

And it's canon that for Spike at least, the chasm between the man and the demon is becoming increasingly intolerable; what they also hate is that part of themselves that is drawn in the opposite direction from their demons.

8) great scene but I don't ship them otherwise. Mostly thanks to the way Anya is back to her S4 aggressiveness with him in S7. "Well it's my bone!" In character but really skeevy, and it assumes Anya has made no character growth whatsoever since S6. Again, it's that flatness in the writing of Anya in S7.

9) Option number 2 - for once in the damn series he's actually called out on his asshatery by Anya - something that I kind of wish Buffy had said to him several seasons earlier. Because it's absolutely true, every word of it. I don't see it as beyond the pale per se because I don't believe he'll actually do it; Xander is a lot of bluster, like when he said to Buffy in WSWB in S2 "If Willow dies, I'll kill you." And it is as lostboy pointed out "a fucking violent show"; going after a vampire who at one point nearly killed you and plotted against you with an axe is not beyond the realm of the everyday in SD, to be honest.

10) Already answered - Tara's closing monologuwe *more sobbing*

11) I think I gave it a 7? It's an episode I honestly haven't rewatched in a while, so I'm not sure I could rate it accurately.
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uly
May. 12th, 2014 11:33 pm (UTC)
3: I feel like you could have written the "Shhh.... I'm having a beautiful moment here." answer just for me!

10: I went with Dawn spelling out "w i s h" ('cause that was awesome) but I love a bunch of the Anya quotes.

Also, Spike and Anya getting together was great.
mcjulie
May. 13th, 2014 02:44 pm (UTC)
Anya's quotes were really hilarious this episode.
livejournal
May. 14th, 2014 08:12 pm (UTC)
Tuesday, May 13 - Wednesday, May 14
User oni_9 referenced to your post from Tuesday, May 13 - Wednesday, May 14 saying: [...] BTVS Episode Poll: 6.18 Entropy [...]
sophist
May. 15th, 2014 03:06 pm (UTC)
I interpreted Anya as seeking validation for her pain from Willow, Buffy, and Dawn. None of them really gave her what she wanted, but Spike (!) did. That's IMO at least part of why she hushed his wish at the end.

Looks like I rated the episode higher than anyone else. But geez, Anya is hilarious, her whole interaction with Spike is fantastic, and the ending is so wrong in so many ways, but so wonderful too.
mcjulie
May. 16th, 2014 04:14 pm (UTC)
I interpreted Anya as seeking validation for her pain from Willow, Buffy, and Dawn. None of them really gave her what she wanted, but Spike (!) did. That's IMO at least part of why she hushed his wish at the end.

Excellent point!
( 49 comments — Leave a comment )

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